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MessaggioInviato: 14 ottobre 2016, 1:23 
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Tommaso ha scritto:
theorist ha scritto:
And do you have a high instep?

I tried the Head Raptor 140RS (95 mm) and the Lange RS140 (98 mm); the Lange's volume was too large; the Head was a closer fit than the Lange, but also a bit too high in volume. I also tried the Head B, and its instep was much too low. I've not had the opportunity to try either a Redster or a Nordica Doberman WC.

Head Raptor B3 and B2 have as last 95mm, I think Head 140rs is 98mm.


That depends on the boot size the manufacturer or distributor chooses to use at their reference standard when quoting width. Some quote widths based on the 27.5 (which is what you are using), but more typically (at least here in North America -- maybe you Europeans have bigger feet! :rotfl: ) the 26.5 is used as the standard. According to the 16-17 Head Technical Manual (https://issuu.com/levnelyze/docs/tech_m ... r_16-17_v4), the numbers are:

26.5:
Raptor RS-series: 96 mm (when I wrote "95" that was a typo)
B-series: 93 mm

27.5:
RS: 98 mm
B: 95 mm

More broadly, these specific numbers don't mean much, since there is no established standard for determining boot width. Thus my Dalbello Scorpion SR130's, which were listed by Dabello as "98 mm", are actually narrower than the "96 mm" Head Raptor RS. Here in the US, here's the way we look at it:
There are two categories of race boots available for purchase by consumers (there's also a third category, the custom shells sometimes fabricated for skiers on the WC, but that doesn't concern us here):
1) The RD (race dept.) boots, also knowns as "plug" boots or "race stock" boots.
2) The recreational racing boots, also known as "production race" boots.
The RD boots include the Head B, Lange Z, Dalbello DRS WC, etc.
The recreational race boots include the Head Raptor RS, Lange RS, Dalbello DRS (non-WC), etc.
Further, generally speaking, manufacturers specify the RD boots as having a width of 92-93 mm, while they usually specify the recreational racing boots as having a width of 98 mm (the Head RS, at 96 mm, is one exception).

Given the lack of a standard, the only distinction that's truly meaningful here is that of RD boots vs. recreational race boots. Simply put, I'm interested in an RD boot; none of the recreational race boots (except for my current Scorpions, which are sort of half-way between an RD boot and a rec race boot in fit) give me the close fit I want.


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MessaggioInviato: 14 ottobre 2016, 9:10 
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Brao Tommaso

mi ha scritto e gli ho spiegato che non puo paragonare scarponi cosi diversi ma spero abbia capito



ole

Esiste un posto dove si parla solo di sci e a volte di bike


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MessaggioInviato: 14 ottobre 2016, 10:15 
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Theorist, just to ass 2 pennies on what Tommy said, as a reference the volume of Head RS series is 1800cc while B series has a lower 1500cc, which might be fitting better you, based on what you said before (RS being too spaceful)

thefabius!


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MessaggioInviato: 15 ottobre 2016, 5:04 
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markorny ha scritto:
Brao Tommaso

mi ha scritto e gli ho spiegato che non puo paragonare scarponi cosi diversi ma spero abbia capito

ole


Hi Mark, yes I received your email. I wrote a reply, but never sent it (my apologies for not replying), because some of the things you said were not consistent with my own experience, and I thought if I tried to explain this it would result in confusion, because of the language barrier. But perhaps I can reply here on the forums, and Tomasso can assist with the communication.

Here are the three things I thought you said (sorry if I am misunderstanding you) that did not make sense to me. I know you are an expert, and it is not my intention to be argumentative. I'm simply communicating with you the same way I would with a scientific colleague who said something that did not make sense to me (I'm a scientist).

I. You seemed to be saying it made no sense to consider a Lange Z or DRS WC as replacement for a Scorpion SR 130, because the Z and DRS WC are in the 93 mm category, while the SR 130 is labeled as 98 mm. I.e., you said the SR 130 has "nothing to do with" the Z and DRS WC, because the SR 130 is a 98 mm, while the Z and DRS WC are 93 mm. [You didn't say this explicitly, but I gather your implication was that, if the SR 130 fits me well, and I like its general performance, the more logical replacements to consider would be a Head 140RS, Lange RS140, Dalbello DRS (non-WC), etc.] Under normal circumstances I would agree with you. However, the SR 130 is unusual: with respect to both fit and performance, it's actually closer to some of the 93 mm boots than to a typical 98 mm. For instance, the SR 130 fits me well, and the boot I've found that fits me second-best (among those I've tried) is a Lange Z. In particular, here is how I would rank them for fit (again, just considering the boots I've tried), from best to worst:
Dalbello SR 130
Lange Z (slightly tight)
Head 140 RS (somewhat loose)
Lange RS 140 (too loose)
Head B (much too tight)

In addition:
1) My bootfitter in the US has skied both the SR 130 and the 2017 98 mm DRS, and he told me that the latter wouldn't work for me, because its volume is too large and it lacks the precision of the SR 130. He suggested the best options would probably be the Lange Z and possibly the DRS WC (with a thicker liner, like the Intuition, we might also be able to get the Head 140 RS to work, but that would not be my first choice); but he has not been in the DRS WC (it's rare in the US), so he cannot give me direct guidance, which is why I'm trying to find information here. I.e., he knows my foot, and sees the "93 mm" Lange Z as a much better candidate to replace my "98 mm" SR 130 than the "98 mm" DRS.
2) I know of one good skier who also needed to replace his SR 130 (which fit him well but had too much forward lean), and he found the Lange Z was the closest replacement; he's skiing the Lange Z now (he did not have a chance to try the DRS WC).
3) From what I've been told, the DRS WC is "similar" in instep height to the SR 130, so it's definitely worth considering. [But I was hoping to get more precise information on its instep height.]

So if the SR 130 and the Lange Z have "nothing to do" with each other, why have others found the Lange Z such a good replacement for the SR 130, and why have I found the Lange Z to give me the best fit of all the options I've thus far tried to replace the SR 130?

II. You seemed to be saying that, because you don't know my foot, you cannot answer my question about how the instep height on the DRS WC compares to that on the SR130. That makes no sense to me. I understand that, since you don't know my foot, you can't say which will fit better. But I don't see why you need to know my foot to say which has the higher instep (or if you'd like to be more precise, the higher instep just below the buckle). For instance, if you ask me if a Lange Z or Head B will fit you better, I can't say, because I don't know your foot. But if you ask me which has a higher instep, I don't need to know your foot to tell you the Lange Z has a higher instep than the Head B.

III. You seemed to be saying I don't need to concern myself with instep height, because the instep can be modified. I find that one is more likely to get a good fit if one starts with a boot that needs as little modification as possible.


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MessaggioInviato: 15 ottobre 2016, 5:06 
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thefabius ha scritto:
Theorist, just to ass 2 pennies on what Tommy said, as a reference the volume of Head RS series is 1800cc while B series has a lower 1500cc, which might be fitting better you, based on what you said before (RS being too spaceful)


I've tried on the B-series, and the instep on the B-series is much too low for me. The plastic overlap over the instep can't even lie flat (it bulges up) when my foot is in the boot!


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MessaggioInviato: 17 ottobre 2016, 19:24 
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Dal Bello DRS 110, pianta larga e collo alto. Lo consigliate ? In caso negativo quale modello race consigliate ?
Scio da da oltre 10 anni con il Salomon Course il quale sono riuscito ad adattarlo al mio piede dopo una infinità di tentativi usando solette più basse, fresandolo, riscaldandolo. Ora penso sia giunto al capolinea anche perchè penso possa lasciarmi " scalzo " da un momento all'altro.
Grazie.


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MessaggioInviato: 17 ottobre 2016, 21:27 
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maurizio59 ha scritto:
Dal Bello DRS 110, pianta larga e collo alto. Lo consigliate ? In caso negativo quale modello race consigliate ?
Scio da da oltre 10 anni con il Salomon Course il quale sono riuscito ad adattarlo al mio piede dopo una infinità di tentativi usando solette più basse, fresandolo, riscaldandolo. Ora penso sia giunto al capolinea anche perchè penso possa lasciarmi " scalzo " da un momento all'altro.
Grazie.


Consigliamo di presentarti e poi partecipare ai topic.
Grazie


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MessaggioInviato: 17 ottobre 2016, 21:35 
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Hello Theorist, I don't know how is it possible that your feet ar good for a Lange Z, but not for an Head B Series or an Atomic that have larger instep.
My Girlfriend uses the Dalbello DRS WC and the fit is really narrow.
Why don't you just believe in your bootfitter and let him give you his tips?


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MessaggioInviato: 17 ottobre 2016, 23:59 
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valelura ha scritto:
Hello Theorist, I don't know how is it possible that your feet ar good for a Lange Z, but not for an Head B Series or an Atomic that have larger instep.
My Girlfriend uses the Dalbello DRS WC and the fit is really narrow.


When you say the Head B has a larger instep than the Lange Z, I suspect you are referring to the width, not the height. Is that correct? Please note that the issue for me is the height.

I can't personally comment on the Atomic because, as I mention above, I have never tried it on. If I recall correctly, my bootfitter said the instep on the Atomic would be too low (but that was a couple of years ago, and we only discussed it briefly, so I might be mistaken in my recollection).

valelura ha scritto:
Why don't you just believe in your bootfitter and let him give you his tips?


I do believe my bootfitter but, as I've said above, he can't tell me about the instep height of the DRS World Cup because he has never tried it on (he doesn't have that boot in his store; he only has the 98 mm DRS).


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MessaggioInviato: 18 ottobre 2016, 11:04 
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Trust me, (or trust Mark), the machining of the insole of any boots is the easiest thing to do... if your problem is the height.... that will be solved!


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MessaggioInviato: 18 ottobre 2016, 16:32 
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have you, or even better your boot fitter tried to call Dalbello USA? http://www.usbizs.com/NH/Andover/Dalbello_Sports_6xK.html or his agent that could be his first contact

That boot already provides additional space for navicular and other protruding bones http://www.dalbello.it/en/tech/contour-4-all sure could be not enough for you but there are some different ways to gain some more space, maybe could be useful to know the way he uses

keep in mind that the inside board ''25 mm high, it has to be grinded (2mm) in compliance with FIS rules (5 mm lifters + total high boot sole + zeppa + innerboot + footbed = 43mm). The original ‘high gap’ or ‘Delta’ between the front and rear part is 10 mm'' as u can find written here http://www.dalbello.it/en/boots/racing/drs-world-cup
there are available differents flex of the same WC boot https://issuu.com/snowsport_pl/docs/dalbello_workbook16-17_en_hires
and also that other boots could be considered :)

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MessaggioInviato: 25 ottobre 2016, 1:46 
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Hi theorist and wellcome with us.
I understand your surprise finding lange z the best candidate for chanching your dalbello but you must consider that the volume is important, ok, but most important is the shape of this volume, and consequently the way the foot stay inside the boot.
You are lucky if you stay well il lange z, is one of the best boot and more sensible , so if the work your bootfitter has to do is not a lot of, take it easy and have fun with your choice!
Atomic is the boot i am using (95 width, so the race boot, non recreational). Its fitting is a little bit strange, is very close to recreational boots so you must consider to buy a number less than usual, have a good fitting (sometimes you must work with heat and shape) and i have understood tha's you don't want to do
If the height of lange is too small you can shape the boot and gain the more space you need , ok I know that is in tour competence.
So, you tried lange, you found it good, I think you have almost choosen so...........ok take fun and tell us the end of your story!
Please for my english but i'm writing after 25 years i made this
:):cincin::rocknroll:

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