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MessaggioInviato: 8 ottobre 2016, 19:02 
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Mi dispiace, non parlo italiano, quindi ho usato Google Translate. L'inglese originale viene aggiunto sotto.

Versione semplice: Come fanno le altezza collo del piede del Lange Z e la nuova Coppa del Mondo di DRS Dalbello confronta con quello del vecchio Dalbello Scorpion SR130?

Versione dettagliata: Sono attualmente in 2013 Dalbello Scorpion SR 130. Si tratta di una misura perfetta per me, quando utilizzato con un sottile rivestimento gara. In particolare, si adatta esattamente il mio collo del piede alto (non ho bisogno di allacciare la fibbia sul collo del piede), senza spazio aggiuntivo. Ma ho bisogno di cambiare gli stivali, perché la geometria dello Scorpione non funziona per me. Ho provato sulla Lange ZB scorso anno. E 'stata soprattutto una buona misura, ma un po' bassa per il mio collo del piede. Sto anche considerando la nuova Coppa del Mondo DRS Dalbello, perché qualcuno mi ha detto il suo collo del piede è "simile" a quello dei miei Scorpions. Purtroppo, nessuno vicino a me vende sia di questi stivali (io sono in California, USA), quindi mi chiedo se qualcuno che è stato in entrambi i Lange Z, o il mio avvio corrente, e che ha un alto collo del piede, può dimmi come l'alto collo del piede del DRS WC è al confronto. Anche 1 millimetro fa la differenza. Inoltre, se siete a conoscenza di qualsiasi altro avvio di gara con un alto collo del piede (Nordica Dobermann WC?), Non esitate a parlarne. Grazie!
**********************************
Simple version: How do the instep heights of the Lange Z and the new Dalbello DRS World Cup compare to that of the older Dalbello Scorpion SR130?

Detailed version: I'm currently in the 2013 Dalbello Scorpion SR 130. It is a perfect fit for me when used with a thin race liner. In particular, it exactly fits my very high instep (I don't need to fasten the instep buckle), with no extra space. But I need to switch boots, because the geometry of the Scorpion does not work for me. I tried on the Lange ZB last year. It was mostly a good fit, but slightly low for my instep. I'm also considering the new Dalbello DRS World Cup, because someone told me its instep is "similar" to that of my Scorpions. Unfortunately, no one near me sells both of these boots (I'm in California, USA), so I'm wondering if anyone who has been in either the Lange Z, or my current boot, and who has a high instep, can tell me how the high the instep of the DRS WC is by comparison. Even 1 mm makes a difference. Also, if you know of any other race boot with a high instep (Nordica Dobermann WC?), feel free to mention it. Thanks!


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MessaggioInviato: 8 ottobre 2016, 20:13 
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Hi, it's impossible to define what you need, especially because we're talking about racing boots and discussing about the different brands doesn't make sense: nobody knows how is exactly your foot and we're not skilled to give you the informations you're looking for.

But you are writing on the forum of the "ski boots guru", and probably he can set you the right boot.
I don't know if he speaks english but I'm sure he's able to send every stuff all around the world. Maybe you can contact Marco (guru, owner of the shop Ornello Sport and the related forum) here: info@ornellosport.com.

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MessaggioInviato: 8 ottobre 2016, 21:12 
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Tommaso ha scritto:
Hi, it's impossible to define what you need, especially because we're talking about racing boots and discussing about the different brands doesn't make sense: nobody knows how is exactly your foot and we're not skilled to give you the informations you're looking for.


No, that is incorrect. I've been buying custom boots for 42 years (mostly race boots), so I'm well aware of what kinds of ski boot questions it does and doesn't make sense to ask on an internet forum. If the question didn't make sense, I would not have asked it! Sure, if I were asking "what boot should I use?", you might have a point. But I'm not doing that. I'm just trying to get a very specific piece of information about these boots. If someone can come onto this thread and say, just as an example, "I also have a high instep, and I noticed the instep height in the Lange Z and the DRS WC are essentially the same, and are both slightly less than that in the Scorpion SR 130, that would be very useful information. Finally, while there are certainly differences between plug boots and recreational boots, there is no difference between asking about the comparative instep heights of plug boots vs. asking about the comparative instep heights of recreational boots.

So please folks: I don't need any comments presuming to instruct me on what does or does not make sense to ask about ski boots on a web forum! Please only comment if you can actually answer my question, or to refer me to someone who can! I already wasted a lot of time on another thread dealing with a guy who just wanted to argue with me about my approach being wrong (https://www.j2ski.com/ski-chat-forum/po ... 6962.page; my name there is "physicist"), and I don't want to do that again. I just want the information, period.

Tommaso ha scritto:
But you are writing on the forum of the "ski boots guru", and probably he can set you the right boot.
I don't know if he speaks english but I'm sure he's able to send every stuff all around the world. Maybe you can contact Marco (guru, owner of the shop Ornello Sport and the related forum) here: info@ornellosport.com.


Thank you, that is useful.


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MessaggioInviato: 8 ottobre 2016, 21:34 
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I didn't want to be rude, as you seemed a bit in your last post. I've just said: here, there are not people specialised in advices about (racing and not) boots. Simply because we are not expert and skilled as you maybe guess.
The owner of the forum fits boots for worldcup skier and if you are looking for informations you need to contact him, cause he's the only one who can helps you.
Bye.

P.S. I don't care about your argument with people in another places. My message was just a polite advice for you. But I won't write anymore

"Leave me alone, I know what I'm doing." K.Raikkonen

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MessaggioInviato: 8 ottobre 2016, 22:56 
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Sorry I came on strongly — every time I post this question, it seems someone replies to tell me that "it makes no sense to ask it"! And I have grown weary of that. But I understand now that you simply meant it doesn't make sense to ask that question *here*, because the members of the ornellosport forum don't have that kind of knowledge (i.e, that ornellosport forum members never ski in race boots, and thus would not know how they compare in instep height). That surprises me, but you know this forum better than I do.


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MessaggioInviato: 9 ottobre 2016, 21:19 
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HI theorist, the last point is the right one: to be honest, I doubt you will get THAT EXACT answer here from us, normal members of this forum.
Only a few are racing, mostly as seniors.
Mark, the owner, has all the knowledge you are looking for. He might have a problem with American translation, but we can help.
Nevertheless, I make you a different question: you said the Lange was OK, but just too low in your instep. Have you ever thought about bootfitting on it? If not, why?
Just let us know!

PS: tell us some more, how old are you? Where do you live and where do you usually ski?
Any info is always more than welcome!

thefabius!


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MessaggioInviato: 9 ottobre 2016, 21:36 
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Hi Fabius. I followed Tommaso's advice and sent Mark an email yesterday, in both English and with an Italian Google Translation. Thanks for offering to help with the Italian. Should I post my email to Mark, along with the translation, and have you tell me if the translation is good enough for him to understand?

As for me, I don't see how this helps with my instep question but: I'm 57, have been skiing since I was 11, and skied ~150 days over the past three seasons (a record for me), mostly at Mammoth Mountain (in California). I spent a decade racing Masters here in the US, but don't race currently. Nevertheless, I like race boots because of their precision and control. Here are some videos so you can see how I ski:

groomers_1: https://player.vimeo.com/video/16615268 ... y=1&loop=1
groomers_2: https://player.vimeo.com/video/16611291 ... y=1&loop=1
single-leg carving drill: https://player.vimeo.com/video/16538007 ... y=1&loop=1
cornice: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ytw27dfpmuwy6 ... s.3gp?dl=0

I work with an expert bootfitter (one of the top guys in the US) that is local to my home mountain, as well as an expert alignment specialist (again, one of the best people in the US) that I fly out to see (she's out of state). The problem is neither they, nor anyone in California, stocks both of these boots for me to try on, and the companies don't let them order pairs just for evaluation (where the store can send them back). Plug boots (what is Italian for "plug boot"?) are of course highly modifiable because of their thick soles, but the one exception (and this applies to boots generally) is the instep. According to both my bootfitter and my alignment expert, it is tricky to get more room in the instep. Generally, you don't want to do grinding or stretching at the instep, and thus the only way you can make more room in the shell is to grind the bootboard. But this is risky, since if you thin the bootboard it can crack. Yes, you can get more room by thinning the liner, but I already have a custom foam tongue that is quite thin over the instep.


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MessaggioInviato: 9 ottobre 2016, 21:47 
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Correction (the forum won't let me edit the above post any more): Plug boots ...are of course highly modifiable because of their thick *shells*.
*******************************************

Here is the email I sent to Marco; I sent him both the English and the Italian Google Translation (with some slight modifications I made). If you'd like to improve the Italian, please feel free to do so!

************************
Dear Marco,

Someone on the ornellosport forums suggested I write you. I’m currently in the 2013 Dalbello Scorpion SR130. It fits me perfectly (in particular, it exactly fits my very high instep – there’s no extra room above it; I don’t fasten the instep buckle). However, its geometry doesn’t work for me, so I am thinking about switching to the Lange ZB or Dalbello DRS World Cup S. In your view, how do their instep heights compare with that on my Scorpions? I was able to try on a ZB last year, and the overall fit was OK, except the instep was slightly low. Someone that is familiar with the DRS World Cup told me the instep height is “similar” to that on my Scorpions, but since even 1 mm matters I would like to get more precise information. No one near me (I am in California, USA) has the DRS World Cup. Also feel free to let me know of any other plug boots that you think might work (Nordica Dobermann?).

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

******

Google Translate Versione:

Caro Marco,

Qualcuno sul forum ornellosport suggerito vi scrivo. Sono attualmente in 2013 Dalbello Scorpion SR130. Mi si adatta perfettamente (in particolare, si adatta esattamente il mio collo del piede alto - non c'è spazio in più sopra di esso, io non fissare la fibbia sul collo del piede). Tuttavia, la sua geometria non funziona per me, così sto pensando di passare alla Lange ZB o Dalbello DRS World Cup S. Secondo lei, in che modo le loro altezze collo del piede confrontare con quella sulle mie Scorpions? Sono stato in grado di provare su un ZB lo scorso anno, e la misura complessiva era ok, tranne il collo del piede era leggermente bassa. Qualcuno che abbia familiarità con la DRS World Cup mi ha detto l'altezza collo del piede è "simile" a quella su mie Scorpions, ma dal momento che anche le questioni 1 mm vorrei ottenere informazioni più precise.Nessuno vicino a me (io sono in California, USA) ha la World Cup DRS. Inoltre, sentitevi liberi di farmi sapere di eventuali altri race scarponi che si pensa potrebbe funzionare (Nordica Dobermann WC?).

Grazie per il tuo tempo.

Cordiali saluti,

******


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MessaggioInviato: 10 ottobre 2016, 9:17 
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Well, very good videos!
I perfectly understand why you need race skiboots, and totally agree with you that it's the best for your level.
Getting back to the questions (I am a curious guy! :) ), normally the inner sole of the boots can be shaped (it's just PU, in some few cases carbon) and reduced 1 or 2 mm. This is supposed to help a lot your instep problem.
Is this the change that your bootfitter disapproved?
I have seen dozens of such fittings, with no problems...

thefabius!


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MessaggioInviato: 13 ottobre 2016, 2:55 
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Yes, that's right, since he would need to reshape the entire overlap area over my instep. And even if it could be done, the best results are achieved when you need to modify the boot as little as possible. Thus it makes sense to start with a boot that fits my instep as well as possible to start.


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MessaggioInviato: 13 ottobre 2016, 8:54 
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Hello, i tried the Lange and the Dalbello last year. In the end i went for the Lange, 'cause fitted better on my feet.
The idea that Fabius gave you, it's not a big deal to be done. Modify the inner sole is one of the basic procedure.
If you can find, try the Lange WC+, it is the same shape of the WC, but already machined in critical areas. That was my choice!


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MessaggioInviato: 13 ottobre 2016, 16:27 
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valelura ha scritto:
Hello, i tried the Lange and the Dalbello last year. In the end i went for the Lange, 'cause fitted better on my feet.
The idea that Fabius gave you, it's not a big deal to be done. Modify the inner sole is one of the basic procedure.
If you can find, try the Lange WC+, it is the same shape of the WC, but already machined in critical areas. That was my choice!


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Did you compare the Lange "WC+" to the Dalbello DRS World Cup (93 mm), or the DRS (98 mm)? If the former, can you tell me how the fit differed between the two, especially in the instep?

By WC+, do you mean the ZA+? [The ZA+ is the pre-punched version of the ZA.] If so, that boot is too soft for me -- I need the ZB (even the ZB felt a little soft, but they don't offer the ZC in my size). And, unfortunately, they do not have a ZB+, i.e., they don't have a pre-punched (or, as you call it, pre-machined) version of the ZB.


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MessaggioInviato: 13 ottobre 2016, 16:42 
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Hello,
My test was made with the Lange WC and Dalbello DRS WC.
My Lange is the ZA+, but when I tryed the Dalbello i didn't find big diffrences.
Btw why don't you try a WC Boot like Head Raptor (95mm) or Atomic Redster (95mm)? Maybe they will fit better to your feet!


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MessaggioInviato: 13 ottobre 2016, 16:48 
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And do you have a high instep?

I tried the Head Raptor 140RS (95 mm) and the Lange RS140 (98 mm); the Lange's volume was too large; the Head was a closer fit than the Lange, but also a bit too high in volume. I also tried the Head B, and its instep was much too low. I've not had the opportunity to try either a Redster or a Nordica Doberman WC.


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MessaggioInviato: 13 ottobre 2016, 18:16 
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theorist ha scritto:
And do you have a high instep?

I tried the Head Raptor 140RS (95 mm) and the Lange RS140 (98 mm); the Lange's volume was too large; the Head was a closer fit than the Lange, but also a bit too high in volume. I also tried the Head B, and its instep was much too low. I've not had the opportunity to try either a Redster or a Nordica Doberman WC.

Head Raptor B3 and B2 have as last 95mm, I think Head 140rs is 98mm.

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